Kai:

Welcome to Brilliant in 20. I’m Kai Miller, the Chief Creative Officer of Emerald one and your host. My guest today is Patrick Sully Sullivan, a two-time winner of the Fed Health I.T. 100 award and the principal product strategist for U.S. Public Sector at Hyper Science, a startup that provides an intelligent content processing platform. His career has spanned multiple, small and large businesses, including active resources Systems Made Simple, which is now part of Leidos and KGS, which is now part of ManTech.

As a technologist, Sully’s prior roles included VP of Digital and Technology Solutions, VP of Emerging Technologies, and Director of Solutions Architecture for IT services firms He holds a bachelor’s degree from American University and numerous certifications on AWS and Microsoft based solutions. Sally, welcome to Brilliant in 20.

Sully:

I’m happy to be here. Thank you for the introduction.

Kai:

So and that that introduction was was quite an introduction. So tell our audience in your own words what do you do every day.

Sully:

I asked myself that exact same question every day because every day is different. In a nutshell, I would say my role is to be the glue between our go-to-market team in the public sector. So that’s our sales and marketing and pipeline generation, folks. Our product engineering team. Right, which is the heartbeat of our organization to be honest, they’re the ones that build all the really amazing and innovative capabilities that are packaged with our products. And then also our leadership team who signs our checks. And so that basically in the public sector market is essentially kind of my role so I really enjoy it because like I said, it is it’s a new adventure every single day. And just making sure that our product is maturing in a way that is most valuable for our customers.

Kai:

Yeah. And you have a pretty significant background in the public sector, right. And federal space.

Sully:

Yeah. My entire career.

Kai:

Okay, great. So you specialize in an area that’s interesting and maybe even a little nerve wracking, particularly to that federal client, but to a lot of people, A.I. and automation. So can you tell us a little bit about how automation impacts the public sector and why that’s important to understand right now?

Sully:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we live in an interesting time right now with the digital age and everyone’s transforming, everyone is modernizing. But really what it boils down to is automation has a direct impact on the customer experience. Or the citizen experience. People expect the same level of service from the U.S. government, whether they’re following a VA disability claim they’re renewing their passport or they’re filing a Social Security disability claim, or they’re seeking any other of the, you know, dozens and hundreds of services that the government provides, you know, the general public. But they expect the same level of service that they would get from Wells Fargo, that they would get from JPMorgan, that they would get from their health insurance provider. Right. Which is seamless, easy to use and simple. Right.

And so the data shows that, like I said earlier, there’s a direct impact between automation and that seamless customer experience that everyone is is after. And then, you know, that is why, you know, I’ve decided to just specialize in this area and continue to learn about not necessarily what is the trend of today, but what are the capabilities of tomorrow that we don’t even know exist yet. All right. And focus on trying to bring those capabilities in front of decision makers and public sector, you know, so that they can provide the best and most seamless experiences to the people that government serves.

Kai:

Yeah, great point. I mean, we all carry in our pocket Usually this amazing resource where we can order food, have a doctor’s appointment, anything else in our private lives. And it seems like there’s a little bit of a disconnect that that people perceive is there between what you can do in your private life versus what a federal government can do for you. And it sounds like some of what you’re doing is kind of closing that gap pretty rapidly so you can access the same federal services from that amazing resource in your pocket, right?

Sully:

Exactly. And and whether it’s through digital or non-digital touchpoints, you know, that doesn’t necessarily matter. Right. It’s just a matter of streamlining the experience on the sort of in the front stage and then using automation and consistency and repeatability on things that happen in the back stage. When you use the food delivery app or you’re browsing on Netflix or you’re ordering something on Amazon, you’re seeing the top part of the iceberg that floats above the water. Right? That’s what you interact with as a as a human. Below the water line Right. Is the other 90% of the iceberg, which is this really complex but precise orchestration of people and technology to deliver that service to you. And then that’s basically what’s what I’m trying to focus on, you know, kind of with my career is that the exact same experience can exist in the public sector.

Kai:

Okay. So let’s talk a little bit more about that that people aspect of it. So we mentioned it might be a little bit scary to some people and they hear you say use automation instead of hiring more people and they can feel like their jobs are in jeopardy. So what can you share with those people who may have that fear, that suspicion, based on the fact that you’re sitting in the front row with a lot of this?

Sully:

Yeah, no, absolutely. So I have implemented or been part of teams that have implemented very large scale complex automation capabilities for the federal government. Not a single person, not a single member of the organizations that we have implemented those capabilities for has lost their job. And so the notion that automation means you’re going to lose your job is a myth. There is plenty of work to do. Automation just means that you will actually be able to come home from your job feeling a little bit more rewarded, maybe with a little bit more money in your pocket because you’ve been promoted but you can focus on the things that matter to you because the things that are more menial and frustrating have been taken off of your plate. And that’s what automation is delivering in the public sector. So we have some success stories with the Department of Veterans Affairs. We have some success stories with the US Air Force, where people have been able to receive training and get promoted, they’ve been able to move from working on spending their entire day, processing paperwork to spending their entire day talking on the phone to veterans and helping them navigate the claims process. Right. So if you are a government employee, you know, like that’s a that’s a valid question, right? Would you? Are you happy you’re spending your day doing paperwork or are you happy you’re spending your day helping veterans by counseling them on the phone? Yeah. And other individuals have been able to receive retraining and move on to roles where they’re making decisions about whether or not to approve or deny veterans claim or determine what level of disability that they should be treated at. And a lot of individuals and staff members get to say Hey, I helped 14 veterans get their disability payment today. Right. Because they approved the claim or you know, I was able to prevent one fraudster from fraudulently receiving their benefits today to protect the integrity of the system. Right. And look out for all the other veterans that are adversely impacted by fraudsters. So that’s really where we’re automation kind of fits in. And it’s also why, you know, hyper science is really focused on being a human centered automation company. It’s kind of part of our core brand because what we want to do is take all the aspects of your job that you hate doing and automate it for you. So you can just focus on the things that you enjoy and you find fulfilling.

Kai:

Yeah, I was actually about to key in on that. I love that you’re talking about this very technical topic and it’s all coming back to people. It’s all coming back to being very human centered. It sounds to me as well like there’s a lot of trust in it’s trust is a huge factor in not only how the workforce responds to automation or even the concept of automation, but potentially how your clients respond to the concept too. Can you talk to us a little bit about you personally? How do you build trust with your clients and with their employees, with their teams?

Sully:

Yeah, that’s a great question. So a lot of automation initiatives fail to launch. I think when people try to tackle way too much at one time, I think a great way it’s been successful in building trust is to carve out small slivers of a process or a workflow or of a business case and see if we can iterate on that small sliver of that use case. Right. Iterate upon it and find a way to automate this tiny little aspect and then show some results back to decision makers, whether they’re the managed service provider or federal systems integrator. Or if it’s that, you know, the government and client directly and then say, hey, all right, this this small little portion of the process that used to take, you know, somebody, you know 8 to 12 hours to complete is now completed in about 2 minutes. So what does that mean? Well, now, right to my earlier point, now that person’s time is available to focus on other parts of the business operations that bring a lot more value to the organization or to the employee themselves. Another way of building trust is, I think, definitely being honest and realistic about what can and can’t be automated and what can and can’t be realized with technology in the government. especially, there are always things that need to be addressed and handled by people and there is it’s always going to happen and you know, being realistic about, well, if we can focus on these things over here and that’ll free up people’s times to focus on the things that are really critical and difficult over here, you know, there are, there are some, there are some cases out there that are going to require $250 million of R&D in order to find a way to automate it. That’s just not economically feasible Yeah, for a lot of, for a lot of cases. But there are other things that you that aren’t the case. And so those are the things that you want to focus on when engaging with, you know, with decision makers and customers. And then, you know, another where to build trust as well is to have explainable outcomes, right? Explainable data, right? That you can, you can back in support that says hey here is the tangible you know ROI or ROE return on effort from you know, this implementation from automating this portion of the process. And if you don’t have if you don’t have data and supporting evidence to really explain the impacts of an initiative, right then it kind of calls into question why are we investing in that in the first place. So really showing the tangible outcomes that, you know, that the initiative is bringing is is I think very, very critical as well for and for building trust with customers and decision makers.

Kai:

Great. So I’m hearing from you delivering on your promises, having the data to back up what you’re promising. But I’m also hearing kind of a rare perspective in the federal space, which is we’re not we’re not going to sell this to you if you can’t actually use it or if you don’t genuinely need it. So that’s pretty interesting. Can you tell us a little bit, having been in the federal sector for such a long time? What are some of the big trends that you’re noticing in the federal workforce or in technology in the public sector following COVID?

Sully:

Sure. If we can address the previous point real quick. Sure. That you made because, you know, something that I really like to communicate across the board is, you know, our mantra is that you can use our platform to stretch the dollar of the American taxpayers and streamline the operations of government organizations through automation, etc.. And so it would be incredibly hypocritical of us to then convince someone that they need to purchase our platform when they either don’t need it or aren’t going to use it. for what it’s intended to do. So if that is really, I don’t know, maybe it’s a new way of thinking in the federal marketplace. But I believe that I firmly believe, you know, that if it’s the platform is not a right fit, if it’s not going to be a very valuable use of taxpayer dollars, which is mine and yours and everyone else’s, then I’m not going to be hypocritical and try and can convince you that you need it. And I’ll Know that’s. I’ll even refer you to another something else that, you know, that that really meets meet your needs, you know, whatever that may be.

Kai:

That’s wonderful. I mean, that’s a that’s Values-Based leadership, right? You’ve identified the company’s core values and you’re leading with those in front. So it’s very rare, but it’s very refreshing to hear as a taxpayer, as a taxpayer. Most importantly.

Sully:

I was accused by our sales team of just lighting money on fire a few times when I’ve had those conversations internally. But at the end of the day, it’s the right thing to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kai:

Okay. So tell us a little bit about what are you seeing from your seat, post-COVID, in our federal workforce?

Sully:

Slack You know, it’s it’s been eye opening. Every everyone, you know, pre-COVID, there was so much angst and hesitance, right. To support 100% remote, you know, there was maybe half in half out kind of things here and there. And then post-COVID we found not only is it very much possible to do a lot of things remotely from home, but in many cases people are much more productive when they’re working from home. I, for one have found that sometimes I’m a little more productive. Sometimes I’m working a little bit longer than my wife would appreciate. Because, you know, of the Home Office, I’m not spending two and a half hours in the car on 66 every every day, you know, or 95 you know. So that is there’s time that goes into increasing productivity. And then I also think that there was a bit of a culture shock at first, but people got used to using collaboration technology. People got used to moving conversations out of meetings and really long, complex email threads and compartmentalizing them into instant messaging applications, you know, like, like Slack or Teams or whatever, you know, whatever your organization uses you people got a lot better about collaborating and sharing information through, you know, Google Docs or, you know, working SharePoint Docs, things of that nature. And I felt like the level of meetings that were needed to get stuff done went down because communications become almost instantaneous now. Yeah, less meetings means a happier for me and also a happier a happier organization because, you know, they don’t have to be in meetings from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. before they can actually start getting anything done. Yeah. One of the downsides, though, right, to, you know, this sort of new normal that we have is sometimes there is a lot of really engaging and brilliant conversations that happen in the water cooler. Right? There’s a lot of ideas that have been generated by three people in a room with a whiteboard. Right. And I think the challenge that we’re facing is how can we recreate those experiences in a virtual world or in in this new normal of 100% remote And then there’s a lots of tools and apps and approaches to do that. And I know we’re experimenting with a with a few of them to basically do exactly that. Like take the watercooler conversation or the, hey, let’s get, you know, three people in a room and whiteboard out. Some new cool idea. Yeah. And recreate those experiences. That’s I’d say that’s the one downside that I really miss. I really miss being in a room with my team on the whiteboard. Just spitballing ideas, you know, firing things out, you know, throwing sticky notes on the wall, you know, hitting the whiteboard, having really dynamic you know, conversations kind of in real time with a bunch of people in a room together and ordering a pizza, get a case of beer or something and have a good time and you know, solve some problems. Yeah.

Kai:

Yeah, it’s funny you mentioned that, because I actually, I at focusing in creativity, I spent my morning using one of the virtual whiteboarding tools. Right. And working with the team on brainstorming some of the things that are more visionary for their organization. But some of the same things that you identified as a potential barrier to automation, the same things come into using those virtual collaboration tools where you see the teams and then are willing to type into the tiny sticky notes and move them all over the board. But some of the conversation, the pizza and beer conversation, it’s still missing is they’re they’re sitting on you know, they’re sitting on teams or they’re sitting on Zoom and they’re not actually connecting. And it takes the warmup to get them to the point where they can connect. Yeah.

Sully:

No, absolutely. You know, and sometimes when you get on these, you know, these Zoom calls or teams calls with the really big participation, you know, grouping, you know, then you get like probably the two or three loudmouths like me that just kind of dominate the conversation. And you feel like people are much more open to expressing some ideas that they’re like, I don’t know how this is going to be received when it’s a group of two or three people. Not right zoom call with 40 people

Kai:

Yeah. Great points. So, Sully, this has been very enlightening to me. Very, very interesting. I am a I’ve worked in it for most of my career, but very much on the non-technical side. So to hear someone as technical is you talking about the humanity of automation and of AI is really fascinating. So thank you so much for sharing that with us. Absolutely. Before we go, though, I have one more question, because at Emerald One, it’s it’s very important to us that we balance our work and talking about our work with living a real life, having a life outside of work. So I would love to hear from you. What is your ideal Sunday morning look like? Where would we find you on a Sunday morning.

Sully:

Sleep. My dreams worked out for my automation. Oh, yeah. I mean, sometimes you just have you have those days or weeks where, you know, you you switch off work mode and you need to stare at the wall for about an hour before you then actually go and do something. Yeah, but you know, I think on a Sunday morning, you can probably like you probably have a high probability of seeing me hanging out with my wife and my dog, you know, walking around the neighborhood and starting to get nice out again. So weather’s turning so, you know, taking and taking a dog out, I’ve got a four year old corgi. Her name’s Piper. Oh, yeah. She’s –

Kai:

Well, we’re going to need some photos of Piper for sure.

Sully:

Now, we’ll get some photos of Piper for sure. Absolutely. And, you know, we like to on the weekends. You know, we live out in Loudoun County, so you know, we like to go and explore the different wineries and vineyards and breweries and what they are in the area, especially if the weather’s nice. It’s a great way to spend a weekend, get out of the house, get some sun and things of that nature. And then if it’s, if it’s, you know, like we’re cooped up and definitely during, during the height of a pandemic when we weren’t leaving the house for anything. But, you know, if it’s bad weather, we’re cooped up. It’s either a coin toss between Netflix and video games.

Kai:

Gotcha. What do you play?

Sully:

Oh, boy. So I’m more on the PC side and play some MOBAs, which is a basically multiplayer online battle arena. Things like The Heroes of the Storm is one that I play with some friends of mine. And then, you know, I also like to play real time strategy games to some of the older, more classic ones. the Gen Z calls them older and classic now, but real time strategy games like Starcraft II is one that I kind of find myself playing a lot. I’m not a big first person shooter game, but I think it’s overplayed. And to be honest, I sometimes just get frustrated with, you know, basically entering the game and then 4 seconds later, a nine year old just killed me. And it just happens over and over and over again. I just can’t do it. You can only be assassinated by someone in middle school so many times before you. You just kind of give up.

Kai:

Issues that are very unique to gamers.

Sully:

Yes. Exactly. Exactly. So I’m not very good. I don’t do it to be good. I it’s just fun.

Kai:

Yeah. Engage your brain. I love it. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for everything that you’ve shared today and for the advancements in the government that you’ve helped implement and particularly in your current role for helping stretch that dollar a little bit further and making the federal employee feel a little bit more fulfilled. A little bit better trained, better prepared for the future. We appreciate it. It was so interesting to hear from you.

Sully:

Aww, thank you very much for having me. This is great. I love the energy. You know, it’s it’s just this has been really fun. And, you know, I really appreciate you guys having me on.

Kai:

Cool. Thanks, Sully.